๐ŸŒฑ
Vegan Vigil
  • Welcome
    • โ„น๏ธVegan Vigil
    • ๐Ÿ“œThe Moral Obligation
    • ๐Ÿ’กEfficacy
      • ๐ŸŒŽResources are Available
      • ๐Ÿ“ŠAccelerating Popularity
      • ๐ŸŒ…Gradual Transition
    • ๐Ÿ“ฝ๏ธDocumentaries/Films
  • Environment
    • ๐ŸŒณEnvironmental Highlights
    • ๐Ÿ’จGreenhouse Gas Emissions
    • ๐Ÿ—บ๏ธLand Use
    • โ˜ ๏ธEutrophication
      • ๐ŸŸSalmon Farming
    • ๐Ÿช“Deforestation
      • ๐ŸฅซSoy for Animal Feed
      • ๐ŸฆShrimp Farming
    • ๐Ÿ„Regenerative Farming
    • โšกTrophic Levels
    • ๐Ÿ›ฃ๏ธFood Miles
  • Animal Rights
    • ๐Ÿ”ชKill Count
    • ๐ŸฃKilled Young
    • ๐ŸญFactory Farming
    • ๐ŸคGag Lobbying
    • ๐ŸงชAnimal Testing
    • ๐Ÿง Sentient Animals
      • ๐Ÿ–Pigs
      • ๐Ÿ„Cattle
      • ๐Ÿ‘Sheep
      • ๐ŸˆCats
      • ๐Ÿ•Dogs
      • Marine Life
        • ๐ŸกPufferfish
        • ๐Ÿ™Octopi
        • ๐Ÿ‹Whales
        • ๐ŸฆˆSharks
      • ๐Ÿ˜Elephants
      • ๐Ÿ•Š๏ธBirds
        • ๐ŸฆœParrots
        • ๐ŸฆCockatoos
        • ๐ŸฆMagpies
        • ๐Ÿฆ†Ducks
        • ๐Ÿ”Chickens
      • ๐Ÿ‡Bunnies
      • Primates
        • ๐Ÿ’Great Apes
        • ๐Ÿ’Monkeys
      • Insects
        • ๐ŸœAnts
        • ๐ŸชฑWorms
      • ๐ŸMice
    • ๐ŸพBy Sub-Industry
      • ๐Ÿ•Dog Racing
      • Eggs
      • ๐Ÿ”Broiler Chicken
    • ๐ŸŒBy Country
      • ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆCanada
      • ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ณIndia
      • ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ชSweden
      • ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ญSwitzerland
      • ๐Ÿ‡ฟ๐Ÿ‡ฆSouth Africa
      • ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธUnited States
      • ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ทGreece
      • ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡บAustralia
      • ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡งUnited Kingdom
  • Health
    • ๐ŸคDietary Health
      • Plant-based Diet
      • Animal Products
        • ๐Ÿ„Dairy
    • ๐Ÿฆ Infectious Microbes
    • ๐Ÿ“Nutrients
      • ๐Ÿ“‹Nutrition Targets
      • ๐Ÿ› ๏ธTools
      • โœ…Essential
        • ๐Ÿฅ—Macronutrients
          • ๐Ÿ’งWater
          • ๐ŸฅœProtein
            • ๐Ÿง…Sulfur
            • ๐ŸŒŠโš™๏ธTaurine
          • ๐ŸžCarbohydrates
            • ๐ŸฐSugar
            • ๐Ÿฅ”Starch
            • ๐ŸชตFibre
          • ๐Ÿซ’Fat
            • ๐Ÿฅ‘Omegas
        • ๐ŸชจMinerals
          • ๐ŸฅฌIron
          • ๐ŸฅฆCalcium
          • ๐Ÿง‚Sodium
          • ๐Ÿง‚Chloride
          • ๐Ÿง‚Iodide
          • ๐ŸŒPotassium
          • ๐ŸนPhosphorus
          • ๐ŸŒฐMagnesium
          • ๐ŸŽƒZinc
          • ๐ŸตFluoride
          • ๐ŸManganese
          • ๐ŸซCopper
          • ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ทSelenium
          • ๐ŸŒฟMolybdenum
        • ๐ŸงฌVitamins
          • ๐Ÿฅ•Retinol (Vitamin A)
          • ๐ŸšThiamin (B1)
          • ๐ŸŒฐRiboflavin (B2)
          • ๐ŸŒฝNiacin (B3)
          • ๐ŸฅฃPantothenic Acid (B5)
          • ๐Ÿ Pyridoxine (B6)
          • ๐ŸฅœBiotin (B7)
          • ๐ŸฒFolate (B9)
          • ๐Ÿ„Cobalamin (B12)
          • ๐ŸŠAscorbic Acid (Vitamin C)
          • โ˜€๏ธCalciferol ("Vitamin" D)
          • ๐ŸŒปTocopherol (Vitamin E)
          • ๐ŸฅPhytomenadione (Vitamin K)
        • ๐Ÿฅ”Choline
      • โš™๏ธConditionally-Essential
        • ๐ŸฅฆCoenzyme Q10
        • ๐Ÿ’ŠCreatine
        • ๐Ÿง„Collagen
        • ๐ŸžCarnitine
      • โฌ†๏ธOptional
        • ๐Ÿ‡Chromium
        • ๐ŸŒฑNickel
        • ๐ŸซAntioxidants
        • ๐ŸƒPhytochemicals
        • ๐Ÿ‘—Soy Phytoestrogen
      • โ˜ ๏ธHarmful
        • ๐Ÿ’”Cholesterol
        • ๐Ÿ”ดCarrageenan
  • Misc. Counter Arguments
    • ๐Ÿ› ๏ธTools
    • ๐ŸงฎLogic
      • ๐Ÿ”—Comparing โ‰  Equating
      • ๐Ÿ‘‰Tu Quoque
      • ๐ŸŒAppeals to Nature
        • ๐Ÿ‚Animals Eat Animals
      • โš–๏ธAppeal to the Law
    • ๐Ÿ”คSemantics
      • ๐Ÿง Individual, Someone, They, Who
      • ๐Ÿฅ›Product Names
      • ๐Ÿ”ชMeat is Murder
      • ๐ŸญThe Animal Holocaust
      • ๐ŸผRape Racks
      • ๐ŸคMothers and Babies
      • ๐ŸŽญHumane Slaughter
      • โ™จ๏ธTorture and Abuse
    • ๐Ÿ‡PETA
      • ๐Ÿ†PETA Accomplishments
    • ๐Ÿ’šPlant Harm
    • ๐Ÿฅ‘Avocados
  • Challenging the Mind
    • ๐Ÿ‘จโ€๐Ÿ‘ฉโ€๐Ÿ‘งโ€๐Ÿ‘ฆSocietal Indoctrination
      • ๐ŸšปGender Roles
    • ๐ŸŽญCognitive Dissonance
      • ๐Ÿง Denial of Sentience
      • ๐Ÿ›‘Avoidance of Change
      • โ˜ฎ๏ธDiscrimination of Vegans
    • ๐ŸงฎReducetarianism vs Veganism
  • Crime & Economy
    • ๐Ÿœ๏ธFood Deserts
      • ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธAlaska
    • โš–๏ธSlaughterhouse Crime
  • Religion
    • ๐ŸŒŸReligion
      • โœ๏ธChristianity
      • โ˜ช๏ธIslam
      • โœก๏ธJudaism
      • ๐Ÿ•‰๏ธHinduism
  • Definitions
    • ๐ŸงฌName the Trait
    • โ˜ฎ๏ธVeganism
    • ๐ŸŒฑPlant-Based
    • ๐ŸทSpeciesism
    • ๐Ÿง Sentience
    • ๐Ÿ“œAnimal Rights
  • Disclaimer
    • ๐Ÿ“œLegal
    • โœ‰๏ธContact & Credits
Powered by GitBook
On this page
  • Examples
  • Conditional Counter-Arguments
  1. Misc. Counter Arguments
  2. Logic
  3. Appeals to Nature

Animals Eat Animals

PreviousAppeals to NatureNextAppeal to the Law

Last updated 1 year ago

Sometimes it is argued that killing and eating other animals is ethical because other animals do this in the wild. There are two main asymmetries with this argument: 1.) Animals in the wild are in a survival scenario. There are doing what they have to, and it would not be generally practicable for them to only eat plants. 2.) Most other animals do not have the same moral agency that we have - they don't have the same capacity to conceptualize right and wrong.

Examples

1.) Humans in survival scenarios may ethically do things that we would otherwise consider in civilization to be unethical. For example, there was a plane crash in the Andes where the survivors ate the dead bodies of their fellow passengers to survive. Another example would be the crew of the Essex in 1821 (whose real-life experience inspired part of the novel, Moby-Dick). Their ship was sunk by a sperm whale, and while awaiting rescue on an island they began to run out of food. They resorted to killing each other and cannibalism to stay alive. In any other context, this would be inexcusable murder, but here it is a survival scenario. As mentioned above, the same logic holds for wild animals. They are in a survival scenario and are doing what they have to to survive. But we are (mostly) in modern society with grocery stores, so we are not in the same survival scenario and therefore don't have that as a justification to kill them. 2.) Very young human children also do not have the same understanding of right and wrong that adult humans do. Therefore, the fact that very young children may hypothetically kick an adult in the shins does not give an adult any justification to, without provocation, be violent against children. It especially would not justify preemptively being violent to any child. In other words, they don't know any better. We do. The same goes for most other animals.

Conditional Counter-Arguments

In addition to these two main asymmetries, there are several more counter-arguments depending on the specific situation. 3.) Many animals are herbivores. About one third of all animals are herbivores. For these animals, the argument "animals eat other animals" does not apply, because they don't typically eat other animals. It would be ridiculous to say that they deserve to die because they killed an animal themselves if they haven't even done that. "Among these taxa, 63% were carnivorous, 32% herbivorous, and 3% omnivorous" "One out of every three described eukaryote species is a herbivorous insect" 4.) "Lions tho". Humans are not obligate carnivores, but some other animals are. One the flip-side of the previous argument, some animals do eat animals because they not only have to out of scarcity but because they cannot digest plants. Humans are not lions. We have the ability to eat plants.

5.) Not all wild animals suffer a horrible fate Some people have a picture in their mind where all "prey" animals ultimately die by being ripped to shreds by "predator" animals, and use this impression to justify killing animals because "we're saving them from a worse fate". However, rough statistics suggest that more like 12% of "prey" animals are killed by predators. In Minnesota, 11.5% of white-tailed deer are killed by wolves "There are 3,000 wolves in Minnesota. They eat on average about 50,000 of the estimated 450,000 white-tailed deer a year. This represents about 11.5 % of the deer population, with minimal supplements of snowshoe hares, beavers, and moose." In the UK, 13% of red deer calves (and presumably an insignificant percentage of adults) are killed by Golden Eagles - their only natural predator in the region "To the exclusion of humans, there is only one predator in the UK that is probably capable of bringing down an adult Red deer: the golden eagle [...] 13% of calf deaths were caused by eagles"

๐Ÿงฎ
๐ŸŒ
๐Ÿ‚
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguayan_Air_Force_Flight_571
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_(whaleship)
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/evl3.127
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6675143/
https://doi.org/10.1146%2Fannurev-ecolsys-011720-023322
๐ŸคDietary Health
https://www.wildlifeonline.me.uk/animals/article/red-deer-mortality